N:"What year was that?"

Z:"Around the early 2000s."

N:"By the way, did you get to talk to Zeebra afterwards?"

Z: "Yes. He did a remix for me, and he even came to one of my live performances as a surprise."

N:"That's great, like a dream come true. And after that, you became a rapper, right?"

Z:"Yes. After middle school, I started rapping when I was 15."

N:"There are a lot of names of places in your lyrics, your hometown is Shinkoiwa, right?"

Z:"Yes. It's really like a old town area. I think it's the complete opposite of the urban environment you grew up in, Tetsu."

N: "I'm from Shibuya, but I don't really have a strong attachment to any particular town or neighborhood."

Z: "But for me, it's more about singing about my peers rather than the town itself. The town just serves as a backdrop. What Katsushika Ward is like can vary depending on the generation, and I can only sing about what's around me. I'm trying to create an image of the old town area that listeners can visualize."

N: "Yeah, it's the true environment. How did you start rapping?"

Z:"At first, I wanted to be in a band, so after graduating middle school, I went to a music vocational school. Back then, groups like King Giddra were really popular, and both Japanese rap and mixed-genre bands were in vogue. My friends were into that too, so I wanted to be the vocalist for a rap band, but I couldn't find like-minded people at the vocational school. Instead, there were people who were rapping, so I thought that would be fine and became a rapper."

N:"I see. So, when you started, how did you handle the tracks? Did you have a DJ?"

Z: "No, we didn't. We used instrumental tracks from records for the beats."

N:"What instrumentals did you like back then?"

Z:"Wu-Tang Clan and stuff like that."

N:"Their first album?"

Z:"When I started, they had just released their third album."

N:"'The W.' Around that time. So, it was when DMX and Def Jam Recordings were popular."

Z:"Yes. But I ended up dropping out of school after about a year. Then I was just hanging around."

N:"Did those experiences at that time become part of your music?"

Z:"Yes, they did. I was involved in typical delinquent activities during my teenage years. But since turning twenty, I've never had any trouble with the police, nor have I committed any crimes. I reformed myself. I realized I couldn’t rap if I didn’t, and I came to see crime as uncool. I think I was the first one in my neighborhood to get back on track."

N:"You made a decision in your teens because you wanted to rap."

Z:"Yes. When I turned 19 in juvenile detention, I really wondered what I was doing with my life. I decided I had to work properly once I got out. So, I started working with my father. It was on construction sites, doing caulking (filling gaps between building materials like exterior walls), and I’m glad I had that opportunity."

N:"I get it, caulking. I liked doing interior work myself."

Z:"You’re knowledgeable about DIY, Tetsu. You can do anything."

N:"I enjoy it. Friends taught me a lot when I was in my late teens and early twenties. But working with your father on a job is a different environment."

Z:"Yes. It changed my perspective on my father. He worked properly, which is why he could get married. I’m glad I worked seriously."

N:"How long has it been since we first met? It’s been about 15-16 years, right?"

Z:"No, not that long. It’s been around 7-8 years."

N:"Really? It feels like I’ve known you forever."

Z:"That makes me happy."

N:"I think the first time we met was through Konno, the editor, at an exhibition."

Z:"Yes, yes. I’d never been to an exhibition before and didn’t know what it was. Even now, I’ve only been to exhibitions for WTAPS® and NEIGHBORHOOD. I first met Shiori there, and she was really kind. She had a big sister vibe, very down-to-earth. All the fashion people I’m connected with now were introduced to me by Shiori. I respect her the most."

N:"She’s our PR. That’s impressive."

Z:"She’s always been good to me, even when I was a nobody, and she hasn’t changed as I’ve progressed. I’m really grateful. After that, I got to wear WTAPS® for 'Ollie' and was on the cover. That made me really happy."

N:"We had a proper conversation during the tour with AKLO in 2018, I think. I remember in Daikanyama, you said, 'I just came from the job site today,' and it felt very real. You also brought ningyo-yaki as a gift, which I thought was really classy. That’s when I got a sense of who you are."

Z:"The first time I saw WTAPS® was in 'POPEYE' around 2013 or 2014. I wrote about it in an essay for 'POPEYE' recently."

N:"What was the feature?"

Z:"It was a shot by stylist Akio Hasegawa of a model wearing socks. That was the first time I even knew about 'POPEYE.' I usually read Champ Road."

N:"Ah, I see (laughs)."

Z:"None of my friends in Shinkoiwa read 'POPEYE,' but I thought it was a very stylish magazine with a street vibe. It was an urban kind of street style you don't see in downtown areas. The socks featured in it were super cool. I looked them up and found out they were WTAPS® SKIVVIES. But I realized they weren’t easy to get. It was the first time I experienced not being able to buy the clothes I wanted. So, I called around to all the 'HOODS' stores nationwide. I think I called about 20 stores."

N:"Wow. You were determined to get them."

Z:"Yes. But they were all sold out, so I ended up buying the socks online for a bit more money. That was my first WTAPS® purchase."

N:"I see."

Z:"There was something tough about them, yet they had a refined quality. They were natural but street, street but natural, and they worked both as everyday wear and performance outfits. It was intriguing."

N:"You wear them on stage too."

Z:"Of course. (To his manager) Could you open my bag? There's a book in there. (Takes out Nishiyama's book 'MY LIFE IS THIS LIFE') I brought this because I wanted you to sign it later."

N:"Wow, you've read it thoroughly."

Z:"I’ve been following you since then."

N:"That makes me happy. When I have good encounters like that, I try not to be too possessive. I don’t want to create cliques, so I try to maintain a bit of distance."

Z:"I understand completely."

N:"We've been close for a long time, so we talk about many things now. It was fun doing the outfits for 'Have A Good Time feat. AKLO.'"

Z:"Back then, Mr. Kiyonaga from SOPH. said, 'ZORN, you like WTAPS®, right?' At that time, I had only met you, Tetsu, but hadn’t thought about asking you for outfits. Mr. Kiyonaga said, 'I know Tetsu, so I’ll ask him,' and made it happen."

N:"Maybe it’s a Tokyo thing, your reluctance to close the distance yourself."

Z:"It might be."

N: "In that video, AKLO wore SOPH., and you wore WTAPS®. The night scenes were cool, especially with the pipes."

Z: "We shot that right in my neighborhood."

N:"Both in the video and live performances, you wear WTAPS® in a way that feels very authentic, which I think has broadened our audience. Thank you for that."

Z:"Thank you too. At my concerts, many fans wear WTAPS®. I try to wear it stylishly, but some folks who look like delinquents also end up wearing it."

N:"I remembered something! One night after working late at a studio in Daikanyama, I went to a convenience store. There’s a bar nearby, and I was a bit nervous walking past a group of young people drinking outside. But one of them recognized me and said, 'Oh, you’re Nishiyama! We’re ZORN fans!'"

Z:"Sorry about that."

N:"No, no, they were great people. They talked a lot about you and how they loved WTAPS®. They were polite and had good vibes."

Z:"I’m glad to hear that. They were lucky to meet you."

N:"No, I was the lucky one. I got energized from that encounter. We should share stories like this more often. They’re good stories."

Z:"Absolutely. Hearing this story gave me a boost too."

N:"ZORN, I think you’re a very grounded person, but is there something you try not to change?"

Z:"The desire to create good music is what I prioritize the most. Also, I want to live peacefully. That’s why I don’t own a smartphone."

N:"How do you stay in touch with people?"

Z: "Email. I go to the office in the morning."

N:"Really? Since when have you been doing that?"

Z:"I used to work out of cafés, but I rented an office in my hometown around April of last year. My manager joins me there in the morning, and I spend the day writing lyrics."

N:"So that's how you make time. On the other hand, is there anything you want to change?"

Z:"I want to keep doing big projects while maintaining my down-to-earth vibe. I want to stay true to my roots and background, like my hometown and family, while taking on major work. To show that this way of doing things is cool, I feel I need to get out there."

N:"That takes determination. I assume your lyrics reflect your life’s realizations and thoughts, influenced by family and friends?"

Z:"Definitely. I incorporate those influences into my own stories, but I choose words that make the message universal. Otherwise, I don’t think the lyrics will endure over the years. I aim for lyrics that are lasting, standard, and simple."

N:"Maybe that’s why they feel so solid."

Z:"If they were just universal, they wouldn’t be different from pop songs, and that would be boring. Plus, pop songs have a different appeal. The strength of rap lies in telling personal stories. It’s this authenticity that can surpass pop. I believe in the potential of rap."

N:"That must resonate with your fans."

Z:"What has changed for me is my mindset. Nowadays, I see staying true to myself as a style, but initially, I resisted it. Singing about everyday life wasn’t common ten years ago in the Japanese rap scene."

N:"Your style was different when you started rapping, right?"

Z:"Yes. Back then, I was more into what I thought was street culture, like crime-related themes and underground rap. Especially in the Japanese rap scene a decade ago, singing about family or daily life wasn’t accepted. I didn’t acknowledge it either. But as I kept going, my perspective changed."

N:"So you gradually adopted your current style."

Z:"Yes. I used to think that living an ordinary life was a disadvantage for a rapper, but it’s who I am, and that’s all I have. When I embraced that, people started to accept me, and it became my strength. Since then, I’ve felt that staying true to myself and my style is the best approach."

N:"Your weakness became your strength."

Z:"Exactly. I’ve even started to think that becoming popular isn’t necessarily a bad thing. If you can sell, why not?"

N:"Changing your mindset often marks significant points in your life. It happens out of necessity. But someone as solid, simple, and sharp-edged as you must feel a lot of pressure."

Z:"There are times when I feel overwhelmed. Sometimes I get so tired of people that I don’t feel like doing anything."

N:"The pressure is real. You put a lot of thought into everything you do. But you have the pride to compete in the entertainment industry and the awareness that you’re carrying hip-hop forward. That’s commendable."

Z:"I think you’re very sensitive too, Tetsu. I relate to that."

N:"Yeah, I used to misunderstand what it meant to be strong too. But showing vulnerability brought me closer to people. It’s tough to show weakness, but it actually helps build closer relationships."

Z:"That’s true. I’ll try not to overdo it but remain disciplined."

N:"What’s your schedule like this year? Any plans for concerts or tours?"

Z:"Nothing’s set yet. I’m focused on making good music first."

N:"If you work with AKLO again, I’d love to see that set with the pipes in the vacant lot."

Z:"We don’t need to build a set. There are plenty of pipes around here. It’s Shinkoiwa, after all."